With the season over, I propose the following major alliances that panned out:
With the season over, I propose the following major alliances that panned out:
The only problem I have is that it was only in two real episodes (the first one and the merge ep) and only somewhat referenced in the Drew episode. Plus, how can you explain where the "Fab Five" went during the period between the first two merge episodes?
LincolnAloisio wrote: Coyopa Guys because it was an alliance formed by the men in Coyopa and they had a rival alliance (girls alliance), even if it wasn't relevant, while on Hunahpu it was only one alliance.
It is "Fab Five", they called themselves "Fab Five", Natalie was not just an affiliate, they discussed the plans with her. I'm sure Missy talked to Jon about working with her after the merge. After Jeremy's blidside they all agreed to stay together until the F5. And there's that thing of Jaclyn and Baylor sacrificing themselves so Missy, Jon and Natalie would be the F3.
P.S. Could you site some episode quotes that said "Fab Five"? I personally can't see that Missy told Jon to work with Natalie that also excludes Jeremy. Jon and Jaclyn (at least on edit) didn't trust Missy enough during the supposed Jeremy blindside to get them involved with it and at least if we are talking about post-game interviews, it seems Missy only thought about voting out Jeremy after Jon brought the idea during that one confessional. About sticking to F5: you could still be technically an affiliate even if there is a pact that was done, but usually they end up in the bottom of the alliance and voted out next, or usually used as goats intstead.
If they agreed or each one have other plans (if I'm not mistaken Missy talked about it in a interview) it doesn't matter. What matters is that they considered her as an effective part of the alliance, not someone who was there just to vote with them and it would be discarded later.
It was mentioned around episodes 12 and 13.
Missy had a strong relationship with Natalie at Hunahpu. Jon knew that. Natalie wanted to go to Exile with Baylor to show her loyalty to Missy. If Missy wanted to stick with Jon until endgame, of course she told Jon about working with (at least) natalie. She wouldn't want to be in an allaince of 4 in a tribe of 12.
"Jon and Jaclyn (at least on edit) didn't trust Missy enough during the supposed Jeremy blindside to get them involved with it"
This don't make sense, as the only person we saw Jon talking about it was Missy, and was then that he told her about his idol.
This is getting way too complicated. Zjzr, your looking WAY too much into this.
It was because they kept winning. In a dream world where the edit is balance, they would be an Tadang alliance, that didn't last long but you knew they were there.
Jon and Jaclyn were thinking about flipping to Josh's side at the merge episode, but they didn't because Julie quit. Then they worked with Jeremy and Natalie to take out Josh, just like Jalapao Three and Timbira Alliance to vote Brendan. Then Maylor and Jonclyn took out Jeremy and Natalie became an official member of the alliance. They were always there since we never saw Maylor and Jonclyn talking about vote against themselves until Day 35.
And we have a page for Exile Alliance.
LincolnAloisio wrote:
Missy had a strong relationship with Natalie at Hunahpu. Jon knew that. Natalie wanted to go to Exile with Baylor to show her loyalty to Missy. If Missy wanted to stick with Jon until endgame, of course she told Jon about working with (at least) natalie. She wouldn't want to be in an allaince of 4 in a tribe of 12.
Even if Jon knew about the strong relationship of Missy with Natalie, does it equal alliance for him? Jon could've just used Natalie for a meantime using Missy's trust and vote her out when Jon could've (or thought) find control. Jon and Jaclyn doesn't have that strong a connection with Natalie compared to Baylor and Missy (whom Natalie really approached for an alliance).
Missy wouldn't be in 4 alliance of 12. It was supposed to be 7 in an alliance of 12 (Hunahpu), 4 in an alliance of 7 (Fab). Numbers wise she still was in good condition. There was no definite "I want to work with Nat after we vote out Jeremy" moment for Missy before he was voted out.
LincolnAloisio wrote:
"Jon and Jaclyn (at least on edit) didn't trust Missy enough during the supposed Jeremy blindside to get them involved with it"
This don't make sense, as the only person we saw Jon talking about it was Missy, and was then that he told her about his idol.
I meant during the Julie boot where Jon and Jaclyn didn't talk with Baylor and Missy about which side to go to. Jaclyn's decision to side with Jeremy on the next episode, at least was shown, has nothing to do with preserving her alliance with Baylor and Missy. Jon strongly wanted to side with the guys, so he wasn't that persevered to maintain that alliance until he only needed that in the next episode to vote out Jeremy.
Copper5 wrote: The only problem I have is that it was only in two real episodes (the first one and the merge ep) and only somewhat referenced in the Drew episode. Plus, how can you explain where the "Fab Five" went during the period between the first two merge episodes?
I have said many times instances where it was mentioned:
1. First episode with the creation by Jeremy and how he recruited members.
2. Some mentions about the unity of the girls against guys by Jeremy in the second episode and also about protecting Julie:
“ | We got Jon and we got Drew, and their both like cartoon characters, like they're so crazy. I'm like ”Are they listening to themselves?” They're so happy and it's like not real, you know what I'm sayin'? Which for me is good because I know all the girls can't stand 'em already. | ” |
“ | I just threw out ”You take care of Val, I'll take care of Julie” and it'll be good. So I'm just trying to give Val time, on her side, to work some magic but if she's voted out, Julie's gone right after. | ” |
3. Of course the Drew boot where Jeremy finally sided with his women's alliance.
4. The Kelley boot and Natalie's reaction to it; Natalie volunteering to go to Exile to strengthen bond with Missy by bonding also with Baylor.
5. The story arc of the first two Merge episodes, maybe even three episodes, Natalie being loyal to Jeremy's plan. Also Missy, Baylor and Natalie's preference to each other than Jon and Jaclyn, could be rooted from this.
There were a lot more alliances in the different pages that didn't have that much of an impact (like the Misfit Alliance only working for about 3 episodes or such I think but still was a major role in the game).
But mostly the thing that separates Hunahpu Alliance and Fab Five are their members: Hunahpu started with Kelley-Julie-Jeremy-Natalie-Missy. Fab Five has Jon-Jaclyn-Baylor-Missy, and personally Natalie as a goat, (haha) thinking that without a loved one in the Jury she already has two votes taken away from her. With Natalie that means the Fab Five only had 2 original Hunahpuans, one if only Missy, with Jon, Jaclyn and Baylor being in the minority of their original tribes. When two of the five members are from the old alliance (only one coming from the original Pairs Alliance which was the basic foundation for the Fab Five) I just can't equate Hunahpu = Fab.
Copper5 wrote: This is getting way too complicated. Zjzr, your looking WAY too much into this.
I need to sleep now cause it's late here, but it's simple: Hunahpu Alliance was there since Day 1 and was executed during the Drew boot, Jeremy was seen as a leader of this alliance during post-Swap (Jeremy-Julie-Natalie vs. Reed-Josh-Wes with Alec supposedly the swing), first seen as the leader during the first and second Merge episodes where Jon and Jaclyn were seen as swings and didn't include Baylor and Missy, being firmly aligned with Natalie and Jeremy until Jon presented the idea to blindside him, yet having the preference to go with Natalie. The "Josh vs. Jeremy rivalry" is a relevant part of the story, and we can't just put Jeremy as an affiliate of the Fab Five as Jeremy, Natalie, even Missy or Baylor didn't know it was for the benefit of the Fab Five alliance. There was this solid alliance -- just can't execute well due to winning (and not better edit like Tandang was) and storylines cut short.
What about this compromise for now. I think there still should be 3 alliances in this season -- the three perceived Kingpins of the visited editions that visited TC (original Coyopa = Coyopa Guys/Josh, original Hunahpu = Hunahpu/Jeremy, swap Coyopa = Fab Five/Jon). I guess I would agree with Fab Five BUT the focus IMO should be the four some that is Missy-Baylor-Jaclyn-Jon, in which the alliance was rooted from post-Swap Coyopa, where they used Keith for two votes to advance the alliance (like Baylor's role in original Coyopa) and was a full-fledged alliance (think of Fulcrum Alliance -- had roots in Tandang but didn't really go forward until the later part in the Merge).
Also another reason why there is a Hunahpu Alliance -- the base connection of the planned Final 3 of Missy and Baylor came from that alliance, right (and remember, if Keith had gone home at Final 5, she was planning to keep that alliance if Jaclyn didn't win immunity at Final 4)? It was formed even before Fab Five, and Natalie then used that connection for her Survivor Sisters alliance (which I personally I think is an offshoot of the Hunahpu Alliance) and possibly reason of preference over taking Jon and Jaclyn for her sub-alliance within Fab Five, to be used as revenge for blindsiding Jeremy, which means her moves was for avenging the Hunahpu Alliance.
@Copper5: Could I ask why Baylor wasn't considered an affiliate of the alliance? She was sort of the "Cochran" "We think he is with us, but not exactly" where she picked a side, she was seen as a "traitor" by the minority and a tool by the majority. She was an important vote twice: voting out Nadiya and was instrumental during the Val boot -- the split was planned with her and for Baylor not to vote any of the guys alliance means that she had an important role for the Guys' progress. She was blindsided as the secondary target during the Val vote and was already revealed to be at the bottom (which now didn't make her into an affiliate), but she was instrumental during the John boot too. Eventually Josh also asked for her help at the Merge but it's just Baylor didn't agree.
Also, I thought you agreed that the alliance of Fab Five was formed even before the Merge during the Tribe Swap, when you said it long existed before the Merge with the Dale and Kelley vote offs? It was Lincoln who said that the Fab Five "started" during the Jeremy boot, where the very core alliance started long before that?